Comments on: The problem with ‘Collective Salvation’ http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/ Where Faith and Politics DO mix! Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:39:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: catholiccitizen http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-381 catholiccitizen Wed, 06 Jul 2011 18:55:04 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-381 ? <DIV>approve</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> ? <DIV>approve</DIV> <DIV style=”FONT: 10pt arial”>

]]> By: JohnRr. Carpenter http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-380 JohnRr. Carpenter Wed, 06 Jul 2011 05:14:07 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-380 Here is a solid article on Collective salvation. It is the version before the PC police gutted it on Wikipedia. See: <a href="http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Collective%20salvation.htm" rel="nofollow">http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Collective%20sal...</a> Here is a solid article on Collective salvation. It is the version before the PC police gutted it on Wikipedia.
See: http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Collective%20sal…

]]> By: The Citizen http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-293 The Citizen Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:12:36 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-293 Maryellen; When you get over your shock, I recommend that you read 'Rerum Novarum' and 'Caritas in Verite'. Both of these encyclicals explain the perils of socialism and the heretical nature of collective salvation. I believe that I explained very carefully the perils of relying on others to do the good works that Christ compelled us to do as individuals. Oddly enough, your comments actually march in line with my argument. I have no problem with individuals and the community of believers doing good works - individually and collectively as a body. The tenet of 'collective salvation' - and the reason it is heretical - is the belief that all must be saved if any are to be saved. This president promotes a socialist perspective on the role of religion. The body politic is the instrument of bringing comfort and aid to the needy. This is contrary to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's also contrary to the teachings of Jesus. I also recommend you read about the Catholic teachings on Justification There is actually a good <a href="http://carm.org/roman-catholic-view-justification" rel="nofollow">link </a>on an apologetics site that may be useful. The problem with collective salvation as it pertains to justification is that collective salvation relies overmuch on mere faith to ensure your personal salvation. I don't know about you, but I am not willing to have simple faith in my neighbor carrying his share of the community 'salvation quota'. If the rhetoric you are shocked at is my criticism of Catholic who support Mr. Obama, I recommend you consult the Catechism. His policies on abortion - as well as his socialist learnings - compel educated practical Catholics to withhold support for this gentleman. If the rhetoric you are shocked at is my doctrinal arguments, I recommend you reflect on my suggestions for further reading on this topic. I take great care in crafting political, historical, and theological arguments that are firmly rooted in the Magisterium. I often consult priests when planning an essay to ensure that my train of logic is consistent with Catholic teachings. Perhaps if you were more explicit in your objections, my response would be less ... wordy. I thank you for your prayers. Maryellen;

When you get over your shock, I recommend that you read 'Rerum Novarum' and 'Caritas in Verite'. Both of these encyclicals explain the perils of socialism and the heretical nature of collective salvation. I believe that I explained very carefully the perils of relying on others to do the good works that Christ compelled us to do as individuals.

Oddly enough, your comments actually march in line with my argument. I have no problem with individuals and the community of believers doing good works – individually and collectively as a body. The tenet of 'collective salvation' – and the reason it is heretical – is the belief that all must be saved if any are to be saved.

This president promotes a socialist perspective on the role of religion. The body politic is the instrument of bringing comfort and aid to the needy. This is contrary to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's also contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

I also recommend you read about the Catholic teachings on Justification There is actually a good link on an apologetics site that may be useful. The problem with collective salvation as it pertains to justification is that collective salvation relies overmuch on mere faith to ensure your personal salvation. I don't know about you, but I am not willing to have simple faith in my neighbor carrying his share of the community 'salvation quota'.

If the rhetoric you are shocked at is my criticism of Catholic who support Mr. Obama, I recommend you consult the Catechism. His policies on abortion – as well as his socialist learnings – compel educated practical Catholics to withhold support for this gentleman.

If the rhetoric you are shocked at is my doctrinal arguments, I recommend you reflect on my suggestions for further reading on this topic. I take great care in crafting political, historical, and theological arguments that are firmly rooted in the Magisterium. I often consult priests when planning an essay to ensure that my train of logic is consistent with Catholic teachings. Perhaps if you were more explicit in your objections, my response would be less … wordy.

I thank you for your prayers.

]]> By: Maryellen Bahn http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-292 Maryellen Bahn Tue, 12 Oct 2010 16:30:34 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-292 As a Christian and a Catholic by choice, I am shocked at such rhetoric! I can follow the spirit of the Gospel more lovingly as Christ commanded by living and treating others as He taught us in the Beatitiudes. May God bless you in his forgiveness for our misdeeds in words and actions. You are in my prayers. As a Christian and a Catholic by choice, I am shocked at such rhetoric! I can follow the spirit of the Gospel more lovingly as Christ commanded by living and treating others as He taught us in the Beatitiudes. May God bless you in his forgiveness for our misdeeds in words and actions. You are in my prayers.

]]> By: Mary Hayes http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-282 Mary Hayes Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:28:56 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-282 This article was helpful in tying together all the "collectives" I've been hearing of. This article was helpful in tying together all the "collectives" I've been hearing of.

]]> By: The Citizen http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-266 The Citizen Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:18:48 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-266 My pleasure, Marilyn. Good luck in your continuing discernment. Rest assured you will be in my prayers. My pleasure, Marilyn. Good luck in your continuing discernment. Rest assured you will be in my prayers.

]]> By: Marilyn Fredrick http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-265 Marilyn Fredrick Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:35:28 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-265 As a Lutheran whose church is dealing with the gay issues I want you to know how much I appreciate your collective salvation explanation.This has helped me to understand what is happening to our Lutheran theology and inspired me to continue to fight for what is right and biblical. Thank you ,Thank you, Thank you. As a Lutheran whose church is dealing with the gay issues I want you to know how much I appreciate your collective salvation explanation.This has helped me to understand what is happening to our Lutheran theology and inspired me to continue to fight for what is right and biblical. Thank you ,Thank you, Thank you.

]]> By: Michael Gormley http://catholic-citizen.com/secularfront/the-problem-with-collective-salvation/comment-page-1/#comment-240 Michael Gormley Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:10:14 +0000 http://catholic-citizen.com/?p=324#comment-240 I was saved, I am saved and I am being saved. Yes, but only GOD knows who they are. God bless you Michael Gormley I was saved, I am saved and I am being saved. Yes, but only GOD knows who they are.

God bless you
Michael Gormley

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